path: root/meeting-logs/20220911.txt

[2022-09-11T20:00:00+0100] <+tamiko> *ding*
[2022-09-11T20:00:18+0100] <@sam_> !proj council
[2022-09-11T20:00:19+0100] <willikins> sam_: (council@gentoo.org) ajak, dilfridge, gyakovlev, mattst88, mgorny, sam, ulm
[2022-09-11T20:00:20+0100] <@sam_> hello!
[2022-09-11T20:00:31+0100] <@mattst88> hello
[2022-09-11T20:00:32+0100] <@sam_> agenda: https://marc.info/?l=gentoo-project&m=166292226632045&w=2
[2022-09-11T20:00:41+0100] <+Flow> hi everyone
[2022-09-11T20:01:02+0100] <@sam_> the link is mangled on marc to mgorny's post: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/79ba5034c1d92b4a5a7cc65ba1a236fe
[2022-09-11T20:01:52+0100] • ajak: here
[2022-09-11T20:02:03+0100] <@sam_> gyakovlev: ping
[2022-09-11T20:02:08+0100] <@sam_> mgorny: ping
[2022-09-11T20:02:11+0100] • tamiko: here (proxy for dilfridge)
[2022-09-11T20:02:12+0100] <@sam_> I think we've got everyone else
[2022-09-11T20:02:18+0100] <@mgorny> sam_: i'm waiting for the roll call!
[2022-09-11T20:02:20+0100] <@sam_> O
[2022-09-11T20:02:24+0100] <@sam_> 1. Roll call
[2022-09-11T20:02:26+0100] • sam_: here
[2022-09-11T20:02:28+0100] • tamiko: here (proxy for dilfridge)
[2022-09-11T20:02:32+0100] • mgorny: here
[2022-09-11T20:02:37+0100] • Flow: here
[2022-09-11T20:02:49+0100] • ajak: here
[2022-09-11T20:02:55+0100] • Flow: as proxy for ulm
[2022-09-11T20:03:15+0100] <@sam_> mattst88: gyakovlev: 
[2022-09-11T20:03:21+0100] • mattst88: here
[2022-09-11T20:03:27+0100] <@sam_> I have a feeling we're not going to get gyakovlev as he's had hw issues for the last month or so
[2022-09-11T20:03:33+0100] <@sam_> I don't think it's worth waiting in light of that
[2022-09-11T20:03:43+0100] <@sam_> so, onwards
[2022-09-11T20:03:48+0100] <@ajak> haven't seen him lately, yeah
[2022-09-11T20:03:49+0100] <@sam_> 2. GLEP 74 update 
[2022-09-11T20:03:52+0100] <@sam_> mgorny: do you want to bother with this now?
[2022-09-11T20:03:56+0100] <@sam_> you sent more updates today to gentoo-dev ML
[2022-09-11T20:04:18+0100] <@mgorny> yes, i'd like to get the first part i
[2022-09-11T20:04:19+0100] <@mgorny> in*
[2022-09-11T20:04:22+0100] <@sam_> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6aa9602f4e86b875b3032281f0bbaf60 was the original but more got sent today: https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/db976e195ef0199178ed4c5ae71cb6d2
[2022-09-11T20:04:23+0100] <@sam_> ah, okay, fine with me
[2022-09-11T20:04:32+0100] <@mgorny> as it affects the media type registration
[2022-09-11T20:04:38+0100] <@mgorny> (second part doesn't)
[2022-09-11T20:05:13+0100] <@sam_> okay, so the GLEP 74 changes we're talking about today (the first part, ignore the ones sent to the ML today) are at https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/db976e195ef0199178ed4c5ae71cb6d2
[2022-09-11T20:05:23+0100] <@sam_> they're pretty straightforward but take a minute to read over them if you didn't already
[2022-09-11T20:05:28+0100] toralf (~quassel@gentoo/developer/toralf) joined the channel
[2022-09-11T20:05:28+0100] ChanServ sets mode +v toralf
[2022-09-11T20:05:37+0100] <@sam_> my view is that it was a mistake we didn't do these in the first place, frankly
[2022-09-11T20:05:50+0100] <@sam_> it's led to confusion when explaining layout.conf to people with overlays
[2022-09-11T20:06:40+0100] <@mgorny> they're mostly editorial changes
[2022-09-11T20:06:51+0100] <@mgorny> the only non-editorial is specifying unix newline convention
[2022-09-11T20:06:52+0100] <+tamiko> They all look minimal and dilfridge was OK with all of them.
[2022-09-11T20:07:12+0100] <@mattst88> yeah, looks good to me
[2022-09-11T20:07:15+0100] <+tamiko> What about we simply list each patch quickly and then vote on the patch (and if necessary discuss)?
[2022-09-11T20:07:26+0100] <@sam_> we had people asking about the implementation defined nature of the algorithms list before ;)
[2022-09-11T20:07:28+0100] <@ajak> does anyone have any problems with any individual patch?
[2022-09-11T20:07:36+0100] <@mgorny> sam_: that's not in today's list
[2022-09-11T20:07:44+0100] <@sam_> ugh, wrong tab
[2022-09-11T20:07:53+0100] <@sam_> sorry, yes, today's ones are very dull
[2022-09-11T20:07:56+0100] <@ajak> (which would necessitate voting on them individually)
[2022-09-11T20:07:57+0100] <@sam_> (which is good)
[2022-09-11T20:08:08+0100] <@sam_> let's go ahead with voting on it unless someone has an objection to any of it
[2022-09-11T20:08:23+0100] <@sam_> motion: approve the GLEP 74 changes (essentially all editorial) at https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/6aa9602f4e86b875b3032281f0bbaf60
[2022-09-11T20:08:28+0100] • sam_: yes
[2022-09-11T20:08:29+0100] • ajak: yes
[2022-09-11T20:08:34+0100] • Flow: yes
[2022-09-11T20:08:34+0100] • tamiko: yes (for dilfridge)
[2022-09-11T20:08:37+0100] • mgorny: yes
[2022-09-11T20:08:46+0100] • mattst88: yes
[2022-09-11T20:09:01+0100] <@sam_> 6 yes, 0 no, 1 abstention as not present
[2022-09-11T20:09:03+0100] <@sam_> passes, thanks!
[2022-09-11T20:09:14+0100] sultan (~sultan@gentoo/developer/sultan) joined the channel
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[2022-09-11T20:09:23+0100] <@sam_> 3. Motion from mgorny to approve pursuing an IANA media type for various Gentoo file formats [0]
[2022-09-11T20:09:24+0100] <@sam_> [0] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/79ba5034c1d92b4a5a7cc65ba1a236fe
[2022-09-11T20:09:36+0100] <@sam_> (and https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/8a9d9b7edc8f9be47f0f42b341e16d78)
[2022-09-11T20:09:49+0100] <@sam_> I'll let mgorny summarise it here as well. mgorny?
[2022-09-11T20:10:07+0100] <@sam_> as some additional context: mgorny has done some nice work over the last week adding support for various Gentoo file formats into file(1)
[2022-09-11T20:10:14+0100] Arsen (arsen@managarm/dev/Arsen) joined the channel
[2022-09-11T20:10:25+0100] <@mgorny> long story short, when working on file(1) i've noticed we don't have mime types specified for our formats
[2022-09-11T20:10:52+0100] <@mgorny> after reading up on it, i've learned that IANA has made it much easier to register official media types (that's how they're called nowadays), so there's little point in inventing x- types
[2022-09-11T20:11:27+0100] <@mgorny> so i'd like to try getting official types for at least the most prominent gentoo types (that are also about to be recognized by file(1))
[2022-09-11T20:11:45+0100] <@mgorny> it probably won't make that much difference but it should increase our professional status
[2022-09-11T20:11:52+0100] <+Flow> I think registering entries with the IANA media type registry has no downsides (besides the effort to do so), and at least increases Gentoo's visibility, and if only with people looking at IANA registries (i.e., certain tech communities)
[2022-09-11T20:11:56+0100] <@mgorny> (fwics only debian has media types registered right now)
[2022-09-11T20:12:13+0100] <+tamiko> dilfridge thinks it is an excellent idea.
[2022-09-11T20:12:17+0100] <@sam_> I was going to say -- I'm struggling to imagine any sort of downside here, other than maybe some sort of fee but I don't think IANA has one for this
[2022-09-11T20:12:25+0100] <@mgorny> i'd like to start with manifests, since that spec is pretty complete and simple
[2022-09-11T20:12:38+0100] <@mgorny> get IANA feedback on that, then move with more types
[2022-09-11T20:12:47+0100] • ajak: wouldn't really even mind a small fee
[2022-09-11T20:12:48+0100] <@mgorny> possibly ebuild, eclass, maybe metadata.xml, gpkg
[2022-09-11T20:13:06+0100] • mgorny: sends his bank acct no to ajak xP
[2022-09-11T20:13:15+0100] <@sam_> yeah, nor would I, just would be worth knowing about if there were
[2022-09-11T20:13:25+0100] <@sam_> this sounds like a rather nice initiative to me
[2022-09-11T20:13:31+0100] <@sam_> I think let's vote and allow mgorny to crack on
[2022-09-11T20:13:52+0100] <@mgorny> i think the only controversial part is specifying control over these registrations
[2022-09-11T20:14:14+0100] <@sam_> it seems reasonable to me that council would have say on it, given we have to approve changes to GLEPs and PMS and such
[2022-09-11T20:14:16+0100] <@mgorny> as you can see in the linked draft, i've specified gentoo council as the controller and myself as the contact point (as the author of the glep)
[2022-09-11T20:14:21+0100] <@sam_> we'd defer to the relevant teams if appropriate ofc
[2022-09-11T20:14:24+0100] <@sam_> (for $FORMAT)
[2022-09-11T20:14:33+0100] <@mgorny> iiuc this basically means that if anyone has questions, they should bother me
[2022-09-11T20:14:41+0100] <@sam_> also, council will always exist I should hope, rather than individual projects which may change
[2022-09-11T20:14:46+0100] <@mgorny> and if anyone wants to update the spec, they should get council approval on it (somehow)
[2022-09-11T20:15:08+0100] <@sam_> yes
[2022-09-11T20:15:11+0100] <@mgorny> fwics debian has specified the whole debian project with website there, so i'm not really sure how that exactly works
[2022-09-11T20:15:26+0100] <@mgorny> but i guess i'll learn while requesting feedback
[2022-09-11T20:15:27+0100] <@sam_> I think I'd be proposing that we were the controller if you hadn't put it in the email to -dev
[2022-09-11T20:15:42+0100] <@sam_> let's vote, and if someone has an issue, we can discuss it 
[2022-09-11T20:15:46+0100] <@mgorny> any questions?
[2022-09-11T20:16:16+0100] <@sam_> motion: approve mgorny's official request to IANA for a media type for official Gentoo file formats, with council@ as the "change controller"
[2022-09-11T20:16:23+0100] • tamiko: yes (for dilfridge)
[2022-09-11T20:16:24+0100] • sam_: yes
[2022-09-11T20:16:26+0100] • ajak: yes
[2022-09-11T20:16:29+0100] • mgorny: yes
[2022-09-11T20:16:31+0100] • Flow: yes
[2022-09-11T20:17:04+0100] <@sam_> mattst88:
[2022-09-11T20:17:11+0100] • mattst88: yes
[2022-09-11T20:17:24+0100] <@sam_> great! 6 yes, 0 no, 1 abstention (not present in meeting), motion passes
[2022-09-11T20:17:46+0100] <@sam_> 4. Open bugs with council participation
[2022-09-11T20:17:50+0100] <@sam_> https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&email2=council%40gentoo.org&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype2=substring&list_id=6470323&query_format=advanced
[2022-09-11T20:17:58+0100] <@sam_> *  	Mirror pkgcore/* repos from github 
[2022-09-11T20:18:14+0100] <@sam_> I don't think there's anything for us to do here, but arthurzam has constructed a plan at https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Arthurzam/pkgcore_roadmap
[2022-09-11T20:18:21+0100] <@sam_> I think we can drop ourselves and be re-cc'd if someone has concerns
[2022-09-11T20:18:33+0100] <+Flow> sounds sensible
[2022-09-11T20:18:43+0100] • ajak: nods
[2022-09-11T20:18:46+0100] <@sam_> (this is bug 835152, sorry)
[2022-09-11T20:18:47+0100] <willikins> sam_: https://bugs.gentoo.org/835152 "Mirror pkgcore/* repos from github"; Gentoo Infrastructure, Git; CONF; sam:infra-bugs
[2022-09-11T20:19:05+0100] <@sam_> we've also talked about this a bunch of times in previous meetings and we're only on it to monitor anyway
[2022-09-11T20:19:08+0100] <@mattst88> awesome, really happy to see that
[2022-09-11T20:19:15+0100] <@sam_> yeah, that's really good news I think
[2022-09-11T20:19:24+0100] <@sam_> ok, so with that, let's just talk about the next zombie
[2022-09-11T20:19:34+0100] <@sam_> * 	Gentoo projects file hosting (bug 176186)
[2022-09-11T20:19:36+0100] <willikins> sam_: https://bugs.gentoo.org/176186 "Gentoo projects file hosting"; Gentoo Infrastructure, Other; IN_P; dsd:infra-bugs
[2022-09-11T20:19:38+0100] <@sam_> this one remains pretty frustrating
[2022-09-11T20:19:51+0100] <@sam_> I don't think there's value in us talking about it every month, but at the same time, it's a crime it's not solved yet in some form
[2022-09-11T20:19:56+0100] <@mgorny> like the status of gentoo infra
[2022-09-11T20:20:06+0100] <@sam_> but then again I wouldn't want us on a bug about the forums upgrade, so...
[2022-09-11T20:20:26+0100] <@ajak> yeah robin's still away-ish from the move
[2022-09-11T20:20:28+0100] <@sam_> I think we may as well drop ourselves from it, and someone can bring it up to us if they think there's something concrete to do
[2022-09-11T20:20:34+0100] <@sam_> (from our POV)
[2022-09-11T20:20:48+0100] <@mattst88> are we waiting for infra@ to try to deploy it, or robbat2 specifically?
[2022-09-11T20:21:06+0100] <@sam_> that question is rather deep when it comes to infra deployments
[2022-09-11T20:21:18+0100] <@mattst88> yeah...
[2022-09-11T20:21:23+0100] <@sam_> i don't think any of us apart from robbat2 are comfortable enough with gitolite or how he's imagining this should be deployed
[2022-09-11T20:21:31+0100] <@ajak> i think robin has know-how with kup et al, yeah
[2022-09-11T20:21:35+0100] pietinger (~peter@user/pietinger) joined the channel
[2022-09-11T20:22:02+0100] <@mattst88> gotcha
[2022-09-11T20:22:07+0100] <@sam_> in any case I think we'll drop ourselves from it for now unless someone objects
[2022-09-11T20:22:17+0100] <@ajak> yes
[2022-09-11T20:22:19+0100] <@sam_> it's frustrating but we're also not here to list long-standing bugbears
[2022-09-11T20:22:41+0100] <@sam_> ok
[2022-09-11T20:22:42+0100] <@sam_>  
[2022-09-11T20:22:44+0100] <@sam_> 5. Open floor
[2022-09-11T20:22:48+0100] <+tamiko> dilfridge requested that I ask how the "status update" is coming along that was requested from the Gentoo Foundation a while ago.
[2022-09-11T20:23:25+0100] <@sam_> antarus: ?
[2022-09-11T20:23:36+0100] <@ajak> i suppose it might be a bit ambiguous what exactly we're expecting out of antarus and the foundation
[2022-09-11T20:25:01+0100] <@mattst88> they should be able to tell us that then :)
[2022-09-11T20:25:23+0100] <+tamiko> Well, according to dilfridge there has been a concrete request for a status update by the council - I am not sure what this contained exactly as I am merely proxying.
[2022-09-11T20:25:40+0100] <@ajak> there was some discussion in here after the last meeting, i guess the conclusion was something like "yes it's a problem, but bandwidth is short and foundation isn't in the way of anything since council is the leading body anyway"
[2022-09-11T20:25:45+0100] <+tamiko> But I think his main question was to ask when we can expect a response (for what it might contain).
[2022-09-11T20:26:03+0100] <@ajak> but it's hard to do anything useful on this without antarus here..
[2022-09-11T20:26:24+0100] <@sam_> tamiko: could you post something about this to -project and cc nfp@ after the meeting?
[2022-09-11T20:26:49+0100] <+tamiko> sam_: Yes. I will relay this request to dilfridge :-)
[2022-09-11T20:26:53+0100] <@sam_> thanks!
[2022-09-11T20:27:13+0100] <@sam_> robbat2 isn't usually around at the time we have council meetings so I think email would work better for this
[2022-09-11T20:27:18+0100] <@sam_> alright
[2022-09-11T20:27:21+0100] <@sam_> any other topics for open floor?
[2022-09-11T20:28:24+0100] <@sam_> i'll take that as a no :)
[2022-09-11T20:28:27+0100] <@sam_> oh, one more thing
[2022-09-11T20:28:40+0100] <@sam_> I've noticed when I mention the IRC channel in meeting agendas that we get more people joining #gentoo-council, so I think we should do that in future
[2022-09-11T20:28:52+0100] <@sam_> I don't think people always realise we're having a meeting on IRC, or how to view it
[2022-09-11T20:28:56+0100] <+tamiko> Sounds like a plan :-)
[2022-09-11T20:29:01+0100] <@sam_> \o/
[2022-09-11T20:29:08+0100] • sam_: bangs the meeting gavel
[2022-09-11T20:29:09+0100] <@sam_> thanks all!
[2022-09-11T20:29:17+0100] <@ajak> thanks sam_!
[2022-09-11T20:29:28+0100] <@mgorny> thanks!
[2022-09-11T20:29:33+0100] sultan (~sultan@gentoo/developer/sultan) left the channel
[2022-09-11T20:29:34+0100] <+tamiko> thanks!
[2022-09-11T20:29:35+0100] <+Flow> thanks for chairing, sam_ :)
[2022-09-11T20:29:58+0100] <@sam_> I'll get the log and summary done today to prevent it from becoming some scary task as well
[2022-09-11T20:31:07+0100] <+tamiko> :-)
[2022-09-11T20:37:32+0100] • ulm: is here now
[2022-09-11T20:37:42+0100] <@ulm> but looks like meeting is finished :)
[2022-09-11T20:37:58+0100] <@ulm> Flow: thanks for proxying
[2022-09-11T20:40:26+0100] <+Flow> you're welcome
[2022-09-11T20:44:51+0100] <@dilfridge> uuh yeah
[2022-09-11T20:45:52+0100] <@dilfridge> so nothing happened and I'm supposed to do the work :P
[2022-09-11T20:46:03+0100] <@sam_> you wanted an update, someone else can post it if they want
[2022-09-11T20:46:25+0100] <@dilfridge> we need to get this eventually done
[2022-09-11T20:46:42+0100] <@dilfridge> it's slowly assuming "forum upgrade" monstrosity
[2022-09-11T20:46:50+0100] <@sam_> yep
[2022-09-11T20:47:05+0100] <@ulm> mgorny: is there a registration fee for IANA?
[2022-09-11T20:47:25+0100] <@ulm> if it's one-off and not too large, the e.V. might sponsor this
[2022-09-11T20:47:44+0100] <@dilfridge> \o/
[2022-09-11T20:59:17+0100] <+antarus> I'm not aware of receiving any request, fwiw
[2022-09-11T20:59:44+0100] <+antarus> Like I know you guys voted to have one, but you never actually made one (and so per the sort of comments here; I'm not sure how it would even be answered)
[2022-09-11T21:05:56+0100] <+antarus> Please post what you want on -nfp, or on a bug
[2022-09-11T22:24:05+0100] <+Flow> ulm: I am not aware of any registration fee on any IANA registry