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author | 2007-10-19 22:55:34 +0000 | |
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committer | 2007-10-19 22:55:34 +0000 | |
commit | 926b4270ff26f3c0b0a79f54bda7a26ab3ffa1e1 (patch) | |
tree | e39951bfb4fd2765f2e05e20d7d5959c2ce56898 | |
download | kde-926b4270ff26f3c0b0a79f54bda7a26ab3ffa1e1.tar.gz kde-926b4270ff26f3c0b0a79f54bda7a26ab3ffa1e1.tar.bz2 kde-926b4270ff26f3c0b0a79f54bda7a26ab3ffa1e1.zip |
Updating project page to reflect the changes discussed during the last KDE herd meeting; Adding meeting logs
-rw-r--r-- | meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-log-20071013.txt | 338 | ||||
-rw-r--r-- | meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20071013.txt | 72 |
2 files changed, 410 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-log-20071013.txt b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-log-20071013.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..720381e --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-log-20071013.txt @@ -0,0 +1,338 @@ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:44] Join tgurr has joined this channel (n=tgurr@hbrn-590f7fff.pool.einsundeins.de). +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:54] <Philantrop> !herd kde +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:00:57] <jeeves> Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:00] <genstef> here? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:03] <keytoaster> yes +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:19] <cryos|laptop> Is it 18:00 hours already? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:22] <keytoaster> yes +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:24] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Yes. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:33] <Philantrop> At least in UTC. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:34] <keytoaster> 20:00 in germany :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:40] <Philantrop> 20:01! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:44] <cryos|laptop> I make it 14:01. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:01:58] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: You're *way* behind! ;-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:02:03] <tgurr> hi all :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:12] <Philantrop> Any objections against waiting for two or three more minutes? Deathwing00 told me he would be here. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:43] <genstef> yes +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:49] * cryos|laptop murmurs about German efficiency :D +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:03:52] <genstef> just start +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:05:17] <Philantrop> Ok, let's go then. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:05:47] <Philantrop> 1. Update to the project page - are we happy with it now that it's been updated? Any additions, etc? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:06:55] <keytoaster> i'm happy with it :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:03] <Philantrop> We, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster and myself have added what we thought was appropriate and it seems we all agree on it, atm. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:29] <Philantrop> So that task from the last meeting is done. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:07:50] <Philantrop> 2. Review of the project page is done, too, aunless anyone objects now. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:11] <cryos|laptop> Nope. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:34] <Philantrop> 3. Process improvement - NeddySeagoon can't make it today, it seems. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:08:48] <Philantrop> It doesn't seem as if much can be done about it anymore anyway... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:02] <keytoaster> yup +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:19] <Philantrop> 4. Miscellaneous - bump to KDE 3.5.8 +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:09:53] <Philantrop> As I'Ve mailed to all of you, I've set up a git repository to collaborate on it. So far, jmbsvicetto, Ingmar^, tgurr and myself worked on it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:12] <Philantrop> I've gotten exactly zero feedback to my mail about it. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:33] <cryos|laptop> Are you manually bumping it? Sorry - I have been mostly offline these last few weeks/months. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:10:49] <keytoaster> i couldn't answer because i'm currently not at home and running windows :( +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:11:13] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: we've bumped the monolithic ebuilds manually, yes. The splits were initially done by the script and are now being combed through manually. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:11:47] <cryos|laptop> Philantrop: OK - sounds good. We always used to just mask and bump - why the git repo now if I may ask? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:20] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: The last bump was critisized by many as rushed and bad. I wanted to avoid that this time. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:26] <cryos|laptop> Masking allowed us to get the arch teams on board and give them access to the tarballs before release via dev.gentoo.org and gentoo-core. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:44] <cryos|laptop> Then we could just unmask after the official release. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:12:46] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Furthermore, like this, interested users like Ingmar^ could help, too. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:01] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: And, of course, we'll put them into the tree and package.mask soon. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:26] <genstef> Philantrop: thanks for your mail, was very good :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:34] <genstef> Philantrop: is there a release date scheduled yet? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:41] <cryos|laptop> Just seems to be making the process more hassle for arch teams to get involved with and interested users can send patches. I have been away so I am mainly asking. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:13:50] <Philantrop> genstef: Yes, it's to be released on the 16th. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:36] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Well, yes, they could but why not combine both? We can still do the p.mask/tarball stuff (like tomorrow :-) ) *and* let others help directly. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:46] <cryos|laptop> I always worry about the trend towards overlays and separate repos making it harder to see and track stuff. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:14:58] <cryos|laptop> Just my opinion though - I know others like it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:24] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: My main point is: People like Ingmar^ are very, very good dev "material" and training them on the job helps, IMHO. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:29] <genstef> cryos|laptop: right, but this stuff isnot meant to be public by upstream +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:15:31] <cryos|laptop> I have very little right to criticise anything due to my recent inactivity anyway. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:01] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: No, that's wrong. You have *all* the right to critisize. I'd just like to *convince* you. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:15] * cryos|laptop will be quiet - I can see the reasoning. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:16:45] <genstef> well, but cryos is right. Last time the mail went to gentoo-core and every dev was able to test iirc +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:19] <Philantrop> Anyway, I intend to put the stuff into the tree by tomorow (in p.mask) and inform -core. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:25] <Philantrop> Any objections? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:37] <genstef> Philantrop: right, sounds cool! Enough time for the arch teams to test then :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:17:54] <Philantrop> genstef: Yes, I hope so. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:10] <Philantrop> I don't think, though, we'll make it to 2007.1 or do you think we can/should? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:25] <Philantrop> Into stable, I mean. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:34] <cryos|laptop> When is the snapshot date? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:37] * genstef does not care about releases +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:48] <genstef> everyone runs emerge --sync anyways .. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] <Philantrop> xxxxxxxxxxxx - Initial snapshot +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] <Philantrop> xxxxxxxxxxxx - Final snapshot +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:18:58] <Philantrop> xxxxxxxxxxxx - Release +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:21] <genstef> well, imo stable the earlier the better +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:25] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: ^^^ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:34] <cryos|laptop> It would be silly to try and make those dates, but I totally agree with genstef. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:19:40] <cryos|laptop> Stable the earlier the better. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:03] <genstef> but 19th will not happen I think +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:04] <Philantrop> genstef: Yes, same here. I just wouldn't want to tell the release guys now we'll make it and possibly delay them if we don't. Opinions? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:11] <keytoaster> sorry, we are having dinner now, i'll read the conversation when i'm back +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:17] <genstef> ok +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:36] <genstef> Philantrop: so we will not make it +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:20:50] <cryos|laptop> Philantrop: I wouldn't tell them we would make it - the 9th is too tight a schedule really. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:25] <cryos|laptop> In some ways it is a shame - would be good to have 3.5.8 GRPed. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:33] <Philantrop> Ok, let's say we can *try* but if we don't, the world will not stop spinning. I will *not* inform the release guys about us making it in time. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:53] <tgurr> sounds good to me +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:21:58] <jmbsvicetto> I'm home +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:02] <jmbsvicetto> Sorry for the delay +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:06] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Welcome back! :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:28] <Philantrop> Ok, next point: "Changing to split ebuilds by default? That would mean going through all KDE ebuilds and changing the dependency order." +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:47] * genstef is against it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:22:56] * Philantrop is against it, too. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:05] <genstef> But if you must for 4.0, you can +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:27] <Philantrop> I don't see the need but maybe there are other opinions? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:23:34] <cryos|laptop> I would rather see us do it for 4.0 and leave 3.5 well enough alone. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:10] <jakub> yeah, not for 3.x +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:12] <cryos|laptop> The apache herd screw around lots inside minor releases and it hasn't made them very popular... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:21] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: That sounds like a good idea. genstef, what do you think? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:31] <cryos|laptop> May be not lots, but when they have it has been painful at times. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:33] <jakub> and better kill monolithic stuff for 4.0 altogether +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:42] <Philantrop> jakub: That's one more point later. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:24:43] <genstef> jakub: sounds good +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:04] <jakub> Philantrop: well, just a suggestion... :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:15] * cryos|laptop adds a here, here. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:22] <jakub> but yeah, messing with the (last?) 3.5.x release in this way will piss off users +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:25:36] <Philantrop> So, we keep the current dep order for now but change it to split as default for >=4.0? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:05] <genstef> Philantrop: right, because split definitely has advantages, with many patches coming in +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:19] <jmbsvicetto> I would like to see us go to split by default +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:21] <genstef> Philantrop: and 4.0 I expect to get many bugreports+patches early :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:23] <Philantrop> genstef: Indeed. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:34] <jakub> Philantrop: as said, you really want to keep monolithic stuff for 4.0? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:41] <jakub> sounds just like maintenance overhead to me +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:26:49] <genstef> jakub: hey, leave the lead to Philantrop! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:01] <Philantrop> genstef: We already get them for the 4.0 overlays. Which leads us to the next point: KDE4 in the overlays. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:07] <jakub> genstef: hey, gimme a beer! :P +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:17] <jmbsvicetto> I can live with split for >= 4.0, though +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:26] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Ok, that's decided then. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:30] * genstef paurs some beer into the wire to jakub's glass +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:44] <jakub> anyway, the point - users are horrible confused by the blockers b/w monolithic/split, they've never grokked it +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:27:52] <jakub> and really makes the eclasses/ebuilds a mess +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:08] <Philantrop> KDE4 in the overlay is doing well. People are reporting bugs, installing it and using it. We currently have both monolithic and split ebuilds. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:40] <genstef> and you have a special project and channel for it :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:42] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: I got a block earlier because I tried to emerge kdesdk-3.5.8 and kdevelop-3.5 +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:46] <Philantrop> Personally, I'd like to keep the monolithic ebuilds. We usually follow upstream and we give our users the freedom of choice. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:54] <jakub> Philantrop: if you could make zmedico into sticking ranged deps into EAPI-1 by the KDE4 release time, that'd be awesome :P +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:28:58] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: We should really have a way to prevent that +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:23] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: We need ranges and sets +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:48] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: well, for sets, you can workaround in a semi-reasonable way by the metabuilds... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:52] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: That would allow us to drop the meta / meta use flags +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:29:54] <jakub> for ranged deps, the hacks are insane :/ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:30:23] <Philantrop> Let's assume for now that we won't get ranged deps/real sets in time for 4.0. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:30:46] <jakub> Philantrop: gah, torture Zac to do it! :> +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:25] <jmbsvicetto> hehe +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:27] <Philantrop> jakub: :-)) I can't. I only torture soon-to-be devs. Not grizzled veterans. ;-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:34] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: I thought your preferred method involved beer ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:31:51] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: even kegs of beer +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:01] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: heh, if that fails, you need something more... effective :D +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:31] <Philantrop> Guys, KDE4 and monolithic ebuilds - to keep them or not to keep them. That's the question. What's your answer? Mine is: Keep them. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:32:56] <Philantrop> !herd kde +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:00] <jeeves> Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:11] * genstef did not write those +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:23] <genstef> so I just go with philantrop on that matter :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:38] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: As long as we can start the work for split from the meta, we might as well keep them +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:44] <tgurr> but the splits should be default by then +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:53] <Philantrop> tgurr: Agreed. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:33:53] <jmbsvicetto> tgurr++ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:23] <jakub> shrug; you're going to maintain the stuff :P +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:36] <Philantrop> Three times "yes" so far: Philantrop, genstef, tgurr (splits will be default). cryos|laptop? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:34:49] <genstef> like: kdebase and kdebase-mon? ;) instead of kdebase-meta? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:23] <cryos|laptop> I would get rid, but don't object that much to keeping. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:24] <jakub> -mon? :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:25] <jmbsvicetto> kdebase is going to be split in two, right? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:31] <cryos|laptop> So I vote no. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:37] <jmbsvicetto> kdebase and kdebase-plasma(?) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:35:59] <Philantrop> masterdriverz: Any thoughts? :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:36:13] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Thanks, noted. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:05] <Philantrop> Ok, so it's 3:1 for keeping the monolithic ebuilds for KDE4. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:17] <Philantrop> Anything else on KDE4? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:37] <Sho_> jmbsvicetto: From our side we have runtime, workspace and apps in kdebase +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:43] * jakub still offers a keg for getting sets and ranged deps in b4 KDE4 :D +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:37:51] <jmbsvicetto> Sho_: sorry, that's it - kdebase and kdebase-workspace +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:28] <jmbsvicetto> Sho_: That's what Ingmar^ said, iirc +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:47] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: ^^ ding ding - motivation above! :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:54] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Ingmar^ is a great fan of splitting. He might do even more. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:57] <jmbsvicetto> :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:38:57] <jakub> anyway, /me out for a couple of plops, have fun guys :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:14] Quit tibix_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:17] <Philantrop> Ok, the point for KDE4 should be done then. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:46] Join tibix_ has joined this channel (n=tibix@host86.200-45-178.telecom.net.ar). +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:39:48] <Philantrop> Next point: I'm going to document the procedure of bumping to the minor KDE revisions. Any help is welcome. I'll present a draft soon. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:40:05] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: If we need you, we'll send you a *SIGBEER* ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:40:58] <Philantrop> Anything I should take special care of when documenting possible bump procedures? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:01] <Philantrop> Ok, obviously not. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:11] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Sorry, but since you're talking about documentation, most people are likely to need some kde4 crash course - in particular to cmake +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:29] <jmbsvicetto> s/most/some/ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:31] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: ok, sounds like a deal :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:42:56] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: :-) Well, yes, but there's not much we can do about it, I think. Self-education should be most effective unless you have a better suggestion. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:43:40] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Unless you want to install a "re-education camp". ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:43:46] <jmbsvicetto> hehe +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:13] <jakub> hmmm, camp... steaks... _beer_ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:19] <jakub> Philantrop++ +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:21] <jmbsvicetto> Well, I guess I'll need to reeducate myself, since I haven't seen kde4 in a while ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:31] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: I'll add this to the summary, though. Maybe someone has an idea or helpful link. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:52] <Philantrop> jakub: I thought more along the lines of a prison camp. ;-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:44:59] <genstef> Philantrop: it would be cool to explain why it is best to have the non-working ebuilds in the git to allow external help and afterwards in gentoo-x86 to allow internal testing :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:32] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: It doesn't have to be git, just an overlay +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:46] <genstef> jmbsvicetto: right +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:45:46] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: But git is good a choice +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:10] <genstef> git would be cool for the portage tree imo. Just pull from external contributors :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:16] <jakub> well, * >> cvs :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:36] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: You know how the cvs/svn/git/* debate ended last time ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:46:48] <Philantrop> genstef: We don't *have* to do it in a git repository for all times. This was just one approach. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:07] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: well yeah, it's not gonna get anywhere... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:11] <genstef> jmbsvicetto: ok, better not discuss it then ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:20] <jakub> jmbsvicetto: we'll be stuck w/ cvs until we switch infra first +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:47:53] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: I wouldn't say that. I think robbat2 is close to accept git +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:06] <Philantrop> !herd kde +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:09] <jeeves> Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:09] <genstef> switch infra! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:10] <Philantrop> Anything else we should discuss? :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:11] <jmbsvicetto> jakub: He has worked on it to supress the shortcommings +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:16] * jakub really out now... oh btw, getting the new eclasses eclass-manpages friendly would be nice :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:26] <Philantrop> jakub: Yes, that's in the making. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:48] <jakub> Philantrop: if you want help, poke me ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:48:55] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: What about the cmake eclass? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:00] <Philantrop> jakub: Thanks, I surely will! :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:26] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: We have one more showstopper in it: cmake-utils-src_test. We need to work on that before I re-submit it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:26] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Has it been merged to Portage or is it still on the overlay? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:36] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: It's still in the overlay only. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:37] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Oh and one final issue - ATs/HTs! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:43] <genstef> waah, cmake.eclass is not yet in the tree? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:49:56] <genstef> urrx, should be imo +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:50:12] <Philantrop> genstef: Unfortunately, no. People had lots of suggestions. We've done most of it but that one remains. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:50:28] <Philantrop> genstef: I'm going to try to get it in next week, though. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:51:45] <shade> jmbsvicetto: ping +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:51:55] <Philantrop> The problem is: cmake-utils' src_test is mostly a copy of the one in ebuild.sh but we currently need it to check whether it's an in-source or out-of-source build. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:05] <Philantrop> Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:37] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: "ATs/HTs". What's your suggestion about them? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:52:51] <jmbsvicetto> Well, glep41 http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0041.html created ATs and HTs +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:01] <shade> jmbsvicetto: so, config ata is sompiled into the kernel, same as config ide +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:03] <jmbsvicetto> I think kde would benefit from having a HT team +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:10] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Yes, but it has been rejected by the council in its current state. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:19] <jmbsvicetto> shade: We're in the middle of a meeting. Give us a few minutes, ok? Thanks +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:34] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Not rejected. It hasn't been implemented +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:36] <shade> jmbsvicetto: ok, np:) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:51] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: And ATs get official recognition +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:53:55] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: I thought so, too. Look at the relevant meeting's log, though. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:21] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: What hasn't been accepted is the @g.o email addresses. Everything else was accepted +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:32] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: So, can I be a kde ht? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:40] <cryos|laptop> We use HTs in the sci herd quite successfully. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:42] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: There's nothing to say against Herd Testers, though. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:54:57] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Pretty, pretty please? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:04] <jmbsvicetto> ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:05] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Oh? That's good to know. Never heard about them before. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:05] <cryos|laptop> I got them boosted bugzilla powers and access the overlay. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:23] <cryos|laptop> Philantrop: Quite a few went on to become devs later too. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:32] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: How's the procedure to make them HTs? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:55:55] <cryos|laptop> I think I was supposed to make a web page about this stuff. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:01] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: :-)) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:05] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Anyway, "personally" I won't gain anything I don't have yet, with the exception of showing up in the kde team page. But other people could get official recognition +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:27] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Well, there's precedent, it seems and it makes sense... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:31] <cryos|laptop> I just used to talk to someone who I have forgotten now who was in charge of the AT project about getting bugzie sorted. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:34] <genstef> yeah, I like the idea +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:41] <jmbsvicetto> cryos|laptop: hparker ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:43] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: That would be hparker. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:48] <cryos|laptop> Yes jmbsvicetto! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:54] <genstef> cryos|laptop: hparker +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:56:57] <cryos|laptop> It has been a while :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:08] <Philantrop> So, do we want Herd Testers? I support the idea. Others? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:20] <cryos|laptop> I think it works well and would support the idea. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:35] <jmbsvicetto> cryos|laptop: s/would/will/ !!! ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:57:57] <Philantrop> masterdriverz, tgurr: Your vote? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:04] <tgurr> sure :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:08] <cryos|laptop> It is a great chance for people to get a bit of a taste of being a dev and decide if it is for them. Some only ever want the HT position and others drift away again,. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:43] <cryos|laptop> Means when people go on to become devs they are usually more certain about actually wanting to do it too. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:58:56] <Philantrop> Ok, so we have four "yes" (genstef, cryos|laptop, tgurr, Philantrop) and no objections. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:04] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop: Yes, sounds really good to me. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:21] <Philantrop> I'll talk to hparker about it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:24] <genstef> so we need some amendment to the project page about that, right? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:39] <Philantrop> genstef: Yes, thanks for volunteering! ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:45] <genstef> including the procedure of how a herd member goes about promoting someone to HT :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:50] <genstef> ok :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [20:59:58] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: You would add a section listing the HT members and some documentation on how to become one +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:06] <genstef> right +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:29] <Philantrop> genstef: So you'd be willing to make a draft for that? Maybe for the next meeting (or earlier)? :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:00:30] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: I'm probably going to have to do something similar for sparc ATs, so if you want, I can work with you on that +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:02] <genstef> jmbsvicetto: ok, cool! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:14] <genstef> Philantrop: will send it to kde@gentoo.org then +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:27] <Philantrop> genstef, jmbsvicetto: Thanks, guys! I'll add that to the summary, too. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:01:44] <Philantrop> Anything else, gentlemen? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:02:43] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: About six-sigma, are we still interested in trying it on kde? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:02:55] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: If so, do we leave that for a future meeting where NeddySeagoon can help? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:03:12] <Philantrop> jmbsvicetto: Good question. Opinions? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:03:36] <tgurr> six-sigma? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:07] <Philantrop> tgurr: Oh, right. That was before your dev time. It's a process improvement thing. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:25] <Philantrop> tgurr: I'll forward you a mail about it. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:04:47] <keytoaster> re +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:00] <Philantrop> I'd say we invite Neddy to our next meeting and see about it then. Any objections? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:07] <tgurr> Philantrop, thanks :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:14] <Philantrop> keytoaster: Welcome back! :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:27] <keytoaster> :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:05:29] <Philantrop> Anything else? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:29] <Philantrop> I'll make a summary of our meeting and export a log from Konversation. I'll mail it around to kde@g.o and if it's fine, I'll ask keytoaster to add it to our project page. Ok? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:33] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: Maybe just a heads-up about next meeting date? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:39] <genstef> Philantrop: thanks :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:06:41] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: sure +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:07:08] <jmbsvicetto> If I'm not mistaken, next meeting will take place at 13/11 +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:07:28] <Philantrop> Ok, then. The next meeting will take place on November, 10th, 2007 at 18:00 UTC here in #gentoo-kde. :-) I'll mail reminders again and poke you guys on IRC whereever I find you. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:04] <jmbsvicetto> Sorry, 10/11 +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:15] <keytoaster> Philantrop, uhm, could we do that on another date +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:25] <Philantrop> keytoaster: What's wrong with that date? :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:08:43] <keytoaster> i just found out that my family visits my friend every second saturday of the month as well... +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:02] <keytoaster> so we'll probably be having dinner at this time, just like today +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:14] <keytoaster> so i will most likely never be able to attend the whole meeting +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:17] <genstef> first saturday then? :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:22] <keytoaster> fine for me +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:28] <jmbsvicetto> hehe +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:32] <Philantrop> !herd kde +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:35] <jeeves> Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:45] <Philantrop> Shall we move our meetings to the first Saturday each month? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:09:48] <jmbsvicetto> first saturday is bug day, but fine with me ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:10:42] <Philantrop> cryos|laptop, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, tgurr? First Saturday each month from November on? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:10:51] <keytoaster> yes +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:07] <cryos|laptop> Yes. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:17] <tgurr> fine to me +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:11:44] <jmbsvicetto> Anyone objects having a note on the project page about the "usual" meeting time? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:01] <jmbsvicetto> In case any interested party wants to follow the meetings +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:12] <Philantrop> If I didn't misread genstef he doesn't object to it either so that would be 5:0 in favour of moving it. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:12:54] <Philantrop> keytoaster: Could you add a note about the 1st Sat every month as our meeting time? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:13:28] <keytoaster> yup +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:13:53] <Philantrop> It's decided then: The next meeting will take place on November, 3rd, 2007 at 18:00 UTC here in #gentoo-kde. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:05] <keytoaster> i'll do it as soon as i'm home +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:12] <Philantrop> keytoaster: Sure, no worries. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:30] <Philantrop> !herd kde +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:31] <jeeves> Philantrop: (kde) caleb, carlo, centic, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, keytoaster, masterdriverz, mattepiu, philantrop, tgurr, troll, vanquirius +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:14:32] <Philantrop> Anything else for tonight, guys? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:16] <jmbsvicetto> Can't recall anything else +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:37] <Philantrop> Ok, thanks to all of your for attending. It's great this works and I really appreciate your feedback and help! +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:46] <Philantrop> s/your/you :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:15:52] <genstef> Philantrop: well, I wonder about a kde lead? I think we decided last time about it, but cannot find anything on the project page? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:03] <Philantrop> genstef: We didn't decide about it. :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:30] <jmbsvicetto> genstef: I think we decided to *not* decide ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:41] <Philantrop> We could decide about it, of course. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:16:46] <genstef> Philantrop: some note like "we do not have a lead: decisions can be made by everyone but it usually it is a good idea to ask philantrop because he is around and knowledgable" +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:17:46] <jmbsvicetto> I would like to propose we select a lead for kde and I want to suggest Philantrop +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:17:46] <genstef> anyways, not that important .. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:18:48] <jmbsvicetto> Does anyone want to open up the election process? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:18:58] <genstef> jmbsvicetto: totally against it +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:05] <genstef> we already decided on the matter :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:13] <genstef> it just needs to be reflected on the project page +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:14] <jmbsvicetto> Against the lead or the election? ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:19] <jmbsvicetto> Ah, ok :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:38] <genstef> you said what we decided +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:42] <jmbsvicetto> :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:51] <Philantrop> genstef: We'll add the note as you suggested to the project page. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:19:56] <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: Mind to add a note to the page? ;) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:11] <jmbsvicetto> Philantrop: We should also send a mail to -core or -dev announcing it +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:20] <keytoaster> give me a complete text :) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:20:40] <genstef> keytoaster: look a few lines a bove the long text. +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:21:00] <Philantrop> keytoaster: "We do not have a formal lead: Decisions can be made by every herd member but it usually is a good idea to ask philantrop because he is around and knowledgable." +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:21:41] <keytoaster> ah, k, thanks +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:17] <Philantrop> Ok, final call: Anything else? :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:18] <genstef> possibly close to the members box +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:22:34] <Philantrop> keytoaster: Directly above the box, I'd say. :-) +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:24:28] <tgurr> I'm off then, ok? +[Sa Okt 13 2007] [21:25:00] <Philantrop> Ok, let's call this meeting closed! Thanks again! :-) diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20071013.txt b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20071013.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..567b83c --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20071013.txt @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +Summary of 13 October 2007 KDE herd meeting + +Active participants: cryos, genstef, jmbsvicetto*, keytoaster, philantrop, tgurr +In the channel: masterdriverz +Missing: caleb, centic, carlo, deathwing00, mattepiu, troll, vanquirius +* = invited guests + +- Project page: The update of the project page was approved by the participants. + +- Process improvement: This topic was postponed until the next meeting. + +- Misc: + +1. Bump to KDE 3.5.8: +The bump to KDE 3.5.8 is taking place in a git repository to allow for others +to take part, too, and avoid critisism like for the last bump. +This allows interested users to be "trained on the job" including the use of +our QA tools in a controlled environment outside the official tree. +Furthermore, the KDE 3.5.8 is not meant to be public until the release as per +upstream request. +Nevertheless, we will put the finished packages into the tree as package.masked +ASAP to allow arch teams and other devs to test. After that's done, a mail will +be sent to kde@g.o and the core mailinglist by Philantrop. + +2. KDE 3.5.8 in stable for 2007.1: +We will *try* to get KDE 3.5.8 into stable in time for 2007.1 but if we don't, +the world won't stop spinning. We will *not* inform the release guys about us +making it in time to not endanger their time frame needlessly if we don't make it. + +3. Changing to split ebuilds by default: +This suggestion was rejected by the participants for 3.5.x. We will make it the +default for KDE 4, though. + +4. State of KDE4 in the overlay(s): +KDE4 in the overlay is doing well. People are installing it, using it and are +reporting bugs. We currently have both monolithic and split ebuilds. +The participants decided 3:1 for keeping the monolithic ebuilds for KDE4. + +5. Miscellaneous +- A particpant asked for information on cmake ("crash course"). Any input is +appreciated. + +- cmake-utils.eclass. Several participants asked to get it into the tree. The final +remaining "showstopper" is the src_test function which is mostly a verbatim copy +of the one in ebuild.sh. We currently need it to determine if it's an in-source or +out-of-source build. Any input on this is appreciated. +Philantrop is going to re-submit the eclass to the dev mailinglist next week. + +- Arch Testers / Herd Testers. It was suggested to have Herd Testers for the KDE +herd as per GLEP 41. The suggestion was accepted by unanimous vote. +Philantrop will talk to hparker, the AT lead about it. +genstef and jmbsvicetto will prepare a draft for the project page and mail to +kde@g.o. + +- A participant suggested to move the scheduled meeting to the first Saturday of +each month. This was approved by unanimous vote. +keytoaster will update the project page accordingly. + +- Several participants asked about the Herd lead status as this is currently not +reflected on the project page. The participants asked keytoaster to add the +following to the project page directly above the "Members" box: +"We do not have a formal lead: Decisions can be made by every herd member but it usually is a good idea to ask Philantrop because he is around and knowledgable." + + +Tasks: +- Put the finished KDE 3.5.8 packages into the tree in p.mask by October, 14th 2007 +and inform kde@g.o and the core mailinglist about it. (Philantrop) +- cmake-utils.eclass should be re-submitted to the dev mailinglist by next week. (Philantrop) +- Contact the AT project on how to implement HTs for the KDE herd. (Philantrop) +- Prepare a draft for the project page about HTs. (genstef, jmbsvicetto) +- Update the project page with information about project lead and monthly meetings. (keytoaster) + |